On my wish list. I have really enjoyed shooting these when I’ve been able. . .
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Our Big Sis Blog: PoliNation
John C. Garand’s work of art. Form and function without the ugly.
Beautiful!
It’s one of the finest rifles I’ve ever had the opportunity to work with.
Thumbusting beast. Have the scar to prove it.
And one of the very few rifles that I can hold at my shoulder and look through the sights at the same time. Not too long for this girl to use well, clear sighting and solid bracing. Thus, why it’s on my wish list . . . it’s what I want my next rifle to be, to be my primary rifle.
While the Garand is, indeed, a classic that belongs in every serious shooter’s collection…you might be better off considering an M-14 type as a “primary”.
I’ve used both rifles in serious social situations, and – if given a choice – will go with the M-14. It has all of the advantages of the M-1; and improves upon it with some definite advantages – not the least of which is the 20 (and 25) round magazines as opposed to an 8-round en-bloc clip. The 14 is also – in most iterations – more accurate. (We’re talking about standard models – not tuned target rifles.) The sights are the same on both rifles; and match sights are available for both…but the M-14 has the ability to accept a scope much more easily, conveniently and at lower cost because it doesn’t involve any gunsmithing to mount the scope. There are also a plethora of stocks and add-ons that allow one to create a ‘semi-custom’ M-14. Not so for the M-1.
As far as ammunition (power) goes…there is very little difference between the 7.62NATO (or .308) and the 30-06. Both are good to about 800 yards+ for a good rifleman. Both drive the same-weight bullets (147 & 150 grain ball) for standard (combat) use. Both are available in 168HPBT match ammo. But the 7.62 is also available in the M-118 175gr.FMJ match and the M-118LR 175gr HPBT Long-Range “Match”. (Those are produced by Lake City (and others), is standard sniper issue; and is available to civilians. As well as being produced by others.)
Check out the 14s at Springfield Armory (they call it the M1A) and Fulton Armory.
None of them are ‘inexpensive’ (to say the least), but they’re worth the price.
[There are others producing 14-types, but most of them get into the semi-custom and custom realm, which I don't think you are looking for.]
Thanks for this. I’m just happy that there are still some of these available to order at various places. As far as I can tell, it may be possible to buy a new one from a dealer for as little as $2100, or a match rifle for about twice that.
Question for you, Sol (or Barn or Knight or anybody else who knows). I always see the NATO 7.62mm used interchangeably with the Win .308, especially for this rifle, but I’ve always wondered why that is. If you do the conversion, the .308 is really more like 7.82mm, I think. That’s slightly larger than the metric round. Is it really possible to use the 2 calibers interchangeably? Is it just because the extra 2 tenths of a mm doesn’t make a difference? Or is my math off? Thanks.
Okaaay… please, Sol, Barn, or whoever else, if you see any discrepencies with my explanation, feel free to correct me!
Sooo… Grunt, you are correct when saying that .308in is 7.82mm. “Is it really possible to use the 2 calibers interchangeably?” Yes, it is. But is it safe to interchange .308 win ammunition with 7.62x51mm nato? Absolutely not… IF you do not know what you are doing. Allow me to explain.
First of all, what they refer to when they say “7.62mm” is the inside diameter of the rifle barrel at the lands. “.308 win” refers to the caliber of the actual bullet.
Now a chambered headspace that is safe for a .308 winchester cartridge, is somewhere between 1.6300 and 1.6340 inches with a 7.62x51mm NATO chamber being 1.6355 and 1.6405 inches I believe (I got the quick measurements from online just in case its incorrect. I did not have any time to actually go out to the “Boom House” and do the measurements myself). Too much headspace allows cartridge brass to expand too much under pressure. Thus in turn, .308 win ammunition, if fired in a rifle that was chambered for 7.62mm nato ammunition, could potentially cause expansion to the point that the case ruptures, causing an explosion. Military rifles that are chambered to the 7.62mm nato round have more head space so that they don’t have any “feeding” issues and it helps to eliminate jamming in machine guns. Also, some 7.62x51mm nato rounds have been known to come with long cases from time to time. No problem for a rifle chambered for 7.62x51mm rounds as the rifle has more “head space”, but definitely a problem if you encounter this for a rifle chambered for a typical .308 win round. 7.62x51mm rounds are made thicker at the base than a .308 win round. The extra thickness in the brass provides enough strength to prevent ruptures.
Conclusion: It is not safe to use .308 winchester ammo in a rifle chambered for 7.62x51mm nato ammo.
You MAY use 7.62x51mm nato ammo in a rifle thats chambered for .308 winchester ammo, SO LONG AS THE CASE IS NOT TOO LONG! Check the length of the case. Forcing a long case into these rifles can cause safety issues that may be hazardous to your health. Safe rule of thumb… don’t interchange these rounds in a rifle chambered for one of the specified caliber.
Again, please correct me if I’m wrong. Feel free to add to this as well. Sol probably had experience with the 7.62mm. Enough to know about the matter.
Whoa, detailed analysis, Knight. Thanks! Anybody else use .308 win in their M14/M1A1? Or not?
This forum indicates that people shoot the commercial .308 ammo in these Springfield rifles all the time, but the manual doesn’t seem to encourage that, seemingly backing up what you’re saying. Still seems a little ambiguous to me.
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/m14-m1a-talk/81454-m1a-7-62-nato-vs-308-win.html
Imho, what they are doing is risky. There are so many gray areas of this issue, but the math behind what I was, as well as other professionals were saying,still stand. IT IS A SAFETY ISSUE. Of course, you can always do what one of the bloggers did and call the manufacturing company about your specific rifle and find out what they chambered the rifle to. Also, ask if it is safe to use commercial .308 win ammo. In some mil spec firearms made before a certain year, I have heard that some were made out of metal that is brittle and cannot handle the high cup pressures that the modern rifles can handle.
SAFETY NOTE: It is not recommended to use .308 win. ammo in a rifle that is chambered for 7.62x51mm nato ammo. If you do, do not use ammo that will exceed 50,000 psi max in the chamber.
Sol, I want your impression of the baby step-sister of the M-14, the Mini-14 by Ruger in .223
The M-14 is a fine rifle, no squabble about that. I’ve had a lot of time on that one as well.
I never have really cared for the Mini-14 (or the Mini-30, for that matter). It just doesn’t impress me as a “tough, reliable, go-to” rifle. A lot of people have said that it has reliability problems (in addition to using proprietary – expensive – magazines rather than STANAG); and that it’s a bit ‘delicate’ for a combat arm.
That said…a LOT of people like it; and it’s been around for a long time. That wouldn’t be so if it was totally unreliable or a piece of crap.
The best I can advise is that you find someone you trust who owns one, try it out if he’ll let you and pick his brain to find out what it’s advantages and shortcomings are. I just don’t have enough personal time on one to pass definitive judgment on them.
For a really lightweight rifle, though, I think I’ll stick with an M-1 Carbine or a naked AR-15.
G.I. M-1 Carbine with hollow points should be adequate.
I own the old version with the straight barrel and the newer version with the flared and hammer forged barrel. Both have bounced around for years behind the seat in the truck going down some pretty nasty ranch roads, and they both will eat trash out of a $20 ProMag. Flawlessly. Yes. You heard me right…a ProMag. They’ve been pretty johnny-on-the-spot when I’ve needed them. Maybe I’ve been lucky and maybe because I keep them cleaned up for a behind-the-seat ranch truck rifle. But, yes, they won’t take a beating like the M-1 or M-14….that’s why I called it the baby step-sister of the M-14. HA!
I’m still not giving mine up. None of ‘em.
They. Will. Have. To. Kill. Me. First.
I’ve got a hankering for a Mini-14 as well. But which model?
barn, I can’t and won’t answer that for you. You are the master of your own destiny.
http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14/index.html
I enjoy the good ol’ ranch rifle with the hardwood stock (I’m not a fan of plastic stocks). I’m effective out to 250 yards with it. It’s not tight, but it’s effective. You can get ~2″ groups on an ideal day, but that’s with lots of time.
The barrels have been remastered since their earlier days, they have been made more accurate and more reliable since.
I favor the wood stock too. It sure would look better with a 20 rd. box sticking out of it, and a flash hider… like a mini M14. Then again there’s something about the stainless version that makes you feel all dressed up and fancy:
I might add some advice: Stainless for humid areas, synthetic stocks for humid areas….walnut stocks if you don’t like the sound of recoil in a synthetic stock. Keep in mind, however, this IS MY OWN OPINION. Also, hanging jewelry rifle doesn’t take the place of being accurate. Practice does that. But, you knew that already.
I enjoy the fact that the rifle has *just nearly* no kick, and I can keep on without much work on reacquiring. Again, this is MY experience. If you can’t tell, I’m a huge fan of this particular make and model.
and now that I’ve looked at the suggested retail prices on Ruger’s site, I CAN’T say that they are worth that. I think you may still be able to find a better rifle for the price. But, if that’s all that’s left, grab it and go, and do not look back. Prices are only bound to go up from here on out.
I am glad I got my gear before all this crap started happening. Oblummer is bound to get gun salesman of the year award again…
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/Mamba1-0/Stet/Erika_mccannM14_2578.jpg
ooofah. Foxy. Very.
And the girl is cute, too.
oh….there was a rifle in there?
I should go look again…just in case you are wrong.
I hate having to be the one to verify crap all the time.
Can’t rely on anyone these days….
It’s all Barn’s fault!
I don’t know much about guns, so I am way behind the power curve, but am trying to learn. A while back Barn posted a picture of a Beretta CX4, which opened up to me the world of PCCs. Now I want one but they can’t be had (for less than stratospheric auction prices).
Did you check gunbroker?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/BI.aspx?Keywords=cx4
Feinstein: ‘The Purpose is to Dry Up the Supply of These Weapons Over Time’
http://freebeacon.com/feinstein-the-purpose-is-to-dry-up-the-supply-of-these-weapons-over-time/
Yeah, let’s see how long it takes for the moslems to run out of AK-47s.
“Theres always a confused soul that thinks that one man can make a difference. And you have to kill him to convince him otherwise. Thats the hassle with democracy.”
Since I’m here in Houston, I’ll just go to the hood and drop some green out the window. Probably get anything I might need. Not the best solution, but it is a solution to a problem. Mi español está mejorando como Ora et labora.
The 3rd Ward is stocked up well these days, just in case your Spanish is rusty.
So is the 5th. Lyons Ave. always has a little sumpin’, sumpin’ goin’ on!
NYPD Testing a New ‘T-Ray’ Device That Scans People and Detects Concealed Guns Under Clothes
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/24/nypd-testing-a-new-t-ray-device-that-scans-people-and-detects-concealed-guns-under-clothes/
“Given the potential of such a device to review items on a person’s body without their knowledge, Kelly told the audience that the city was working with lawyers to figure out how it could be used lawfully…”
Use it lawfully? Simple… they’ll change the law or ignore existing laws.
Ya know, there’s a censor approved movie which was supposed to release here called “Vishwaroopam”. I am not entirely sure what it’s about but something about Taliban, I hear. Muslims took offense to the fact that the Afghan terrorists in the movie are portrayed as Muslims. So, they terrorized the State government that if the movie which portrays Muslims as terrorists releases, there’d be terrorism. I may be paraphrasing, but what else do they ever possibly mean. So my State banned the movie for 15 days.
In a completely unrelated news, Jan 26th is the Republic day for the constitutionally secular India.
Hilarious! And sad.
But happy Republic day! We could use one of those, just to remind people that we’re supposed to be a Republic and not an anything-goes thugocracy.
Thank you, Grunt. Though Jan 26th is really our Republic day, I was being a bit sarcastic with the last line, given what I was talking about. At least, we’ll have a great Republic day parade and a wonderful rendition of “Abide with me” by Massed bands on Beating Retreat.
I guess sarcasm is the only thing we have left, eh? At least we can commiserate.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/01/the_president_declares_war_on_the_founding.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/01/digging_the_benghazi_memory_hole.html
Feinstein: “Weak Gun Laws Allow Massacres Like Sandy Hook”, List Of Guns She Proposes To Ban
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/01/24/feinstein-weak-gun-laws-allow-massacres-like-sandy-hook-list-of-guns-she-proposes-to-ban/
The word angry doesn’t even come close to describing how I’m feeling right now.
Looks a lot like the list cuomo has for NY.
There’s at least one democrat I like. Heh.
http://dharmastudy.org/awakening/readings/calvin_victimhood.jpg
Sorry! This site needed a little bit of CnH. You all seem a little glum.
Good one! Thanks Shalini!
Your’e the best Shalini! Thanks!
I wonder if Frankenstein put this one on her Ban List?
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNWr9eF2Huk?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D
I better order it now…before it’s TOO late! Especially at THAT price!
This is disgusting. Those planes are going to be used against Christians and Jews, most of them helpless. At least the Israelis will be shooting back. This HAS to be stopped. I’m NOT ok with my tax dollars paying for this. This SUCKS.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/24/john-kerry-defends-obama-admins-f-16-gifts-to-muslim-brotherhood-ruled-egypt/
oh no F&#^@^!*& way…..
What Coyote said.
Any day is a good day for some Johnny Cash. This song has been playing in my head all day long.
We Must Do Something About The Media
http://minx.cc/?post=336869
“This is dangerous and unhealthy. I keep banging this drum but honestly, some patriotic billionaires do have to band together to purchase or build a media outlet. The outlet would be founded upon a simple premise: that it is dangerous and ultimately fatal for democracy for media power to fuse with government power, that the adversarial press is vital.”
I know of a few millionaires who seriously want to do this, especially with newspapers. Funny thing, they’re all Democrats who are sick and tired of the liberal media’s lies and its dangerous alliance with the government.
I’ve always been disappointed with Rush that he gave up on television. He was at his best back then.
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE LOCATION!!!!
************************************************************************
In the news this week, a Southern California man was put under 72-hour psychiatric observation when it was found he owned 100 guns and had (by rough estimate) 1 million rounds of ammunition stored in his home. The house also has a secret escape tunnel.
The television reporter said: “Wow! He has about a million machine gun bullets!” and the headline referred to it as a “massive weapons cache”.
By California standards someone owning even 100,000 rounds would be called “mentally unstable”.
If he lived elsewhere, such as Arizona , he’d be called “an avid gun collector.”
In Oklahoma , he’d be called “a novice gun collector”.
In Utah , he’d be called “moderately well prepared”, but they’d probably reserve judgment until they made sure that he had a corresponding quantity of stored food.
In Montana , he’d be called “the neighborhood ‘Go-To’ guy”.
In Idaho , he’d be called “a likely gubernatorial candidate”.
In Wyoming , he’d be called “an eligible bachelor”.
and…
In Texas , he’d be called “a Hunting Buddy”.
These guys are scratching their collective heads wondering what’s the big deal?
http://www.knobcreekrange.com/events/featured-events/machine-gun-shoot
Dayum!!!
If you can get there – do so! You won’t regret it. I haven’t been there in years – but it’s on my to do list.
You’ll get to see guns – up close – that you’ve only seen pictures of; and shoot some of them (depending on the owner).
Take the whole family.
Crackin’ me up!
HAHA!
The cops WILL help the power company install a smart meter on your property.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/naperville/chi-naperville-smart-meter-arrest-20130123,0,6519967.story
Anyone here ever think of going class III?
http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/default?set=06
No, but when we lived in the DC area, which has some of the worst drivers anywhere, I used to think about buying an old, heavy cadillac, and putting a turret on it with some kind of huge paint ball gun.
This is my daydream, everytime I have to go on New York Avenue. This, and the dream of having car-mounted missiles and corresponding buttons on the dash . . .
There’s a reason this guy attracts flies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9825687/Barack-Obama-provides-landing-pad-for-fly.html
Chris Muir kills it again.
Hey Grunt! What’s up with NASA testing vintage engines that was to be used on the Apollo 11 mission?
I don’t know! Let me see if I can find out.
Hawaii Ammo Restrictions: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=30
Hawaii Assault Weapons Ban: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=219
Hawaii Mandatory Annual Firearm Registration And Training: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=36
The last one imo, is the worst one of them all!
Gonna be a damn shame about that boating accident of yours. You know, the one where you capsized and lost your best EBR, best semi-auto pistol and best shotgun.
Sympathies on your loss, bro.