Open Thread, Thursday 14 March 2013

Argentina - Cardinal Jorge BergoglioJORGE BERGOGLIO NEW POPEimagesBergoglio1-600x3001001845_300x169Bergoglio_OK_3images-1images-201-BERGOGLIONewly elected Pope Francis, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina appears on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican


About GruntOfMonteCristo

Fearless and Devout Catholic Christian First, Loving Husband and Father Second, Pissed-Off Patriot Third, Rocket Engineer Dork Last.
This entry was posted in General Religiousness, Open Threads, Servants of God. Bookmark the permalink.

53 Responses to Open Thread, Thursday 14 March 2013

  1. freedom1781 says:

    Good morning. Here are some more photos….

    The Making of a Pope: 36 Pictures of Pope Francis I from Past to Present

  2. freedom1781 says:

    All Senate Republicans Vote to Defund Obamacare

    Wow. This is a big deal–even the squishy RINOs voted to defund the monstrosity. Too bad there weren’t a few Dems to join them.

    • ZurichMike says:

      Not such an act of courage — it didn’t have a snowball’s chance in heck of passing, so they didn’t have to spend any political capital.

      • barnslayer says:

        I agree! No skin off their noses voting in favor of something that won’t go through. They did it for glory points next election time.

    • texan59 says:

      This symbolic gesture was made AFTER they passed the CR which fully funded ongoing installation for the remainder of the fiscal year. 👿

  3. freedom1781 says:

    Cruz to Republicans: ‘Stand on Principle’

    I *heart* Ted Cruz.

    • Definitely. I heard him, this morning, confront that witch, Diane Feinstein, about her weapons ban. He said just the right thing, and she was a beeotch, as always, refusing to answer the question while being condescending and rude.

  4. freedom1781 says:

    Below is a pep talk from Allen West to kick off your Thursday morning. Enjoy!

  5. ZurichMike says:

    My mother says I am going to hell for giggling about some of these:

  6. freedom1781 says:

    1936 Redux – It’s Really Never Different This Time

    We are so screwed.

    • Harvey says:

      The way the graphs match is pretty stunning. But they never describe what individuals can do. Is that because there is no way to salvage some finances, or because the suggestions are all over the map?

      • Harvey, that’s a great question. I’m reading a book now about how to inflation-proof your savings & investments, and I think that’s going to be a critical topic for us to be discussing shortly. I know I had been ranting about how our only chance was leaving the country, but for many of us (myself included), that’s simply not going to happen. So it is going to be very important for us to help each other to get prepared for the next few months, financially and otherwise. Does anyone else have any good advice at the moment?

  7. zmalfoy says:

    Today, I’m learning about “Common Core”.

    This is disturbing stuff. Like, I broke out the booze before sunset bad . . .

  8. texan59 says:

    Dagny has spoken. And she ain’t happy.

    • I haven’t digested this thoroughly yet, but it’s hard for me to trust her criticism. For one thing, it seems like her litmus test for anyone is whether they demand that the Latin Mass is more important than anything else. It is not. Also, she confuses concern for the poor with Marxism, then fails to provide the slightest evidence that he’s a Marxist rather than just a good bishop who cares for the poor in a part of the world where they suffer terribly in a system stacked against them. Also, she and I have argued about bishops before, and even the very most orthodox and saintly ones, like Chaput, she just says: “Trust me; he’s evil.” She seems incapable of praising anyone, and she has not impressed me, totally, with her discernment on that stuff. Not that she cares about impressing anybody like us. As some have pointed out, there is no two-way conversation with her, and she’s quick to accuse you of being a narcissist if you ever complain about that. Now I see that Shalini has written something about Ann, so I guess I better go read it! 🙂

      • zmalfoy says:

        Yanno . . . back when Benedict XVI was elected, on that day, I was still a liberal, feminist sort of Catholic. I was, at the time, a member of the Women’s Ordination Conference and had, only a few years before, been a paying member of Call to Action. (Yes, for those of you that recognize the names, I was among those people.) I was horrified when I saw him walk out onto the balcony. Like, This-Is-The-End-of-Days horrified.

        However, conservatives that I was exposed to rightly reminded me that Jesus had promised that Hell would not prevail against his church, and that one had to have Faith in the Holy Spirit, even if something mystified us. Especially when mystified, we had to have the humility to be open to what the Spirit was trying to show.

        So, in the midst of my confusion and dismay, I made a conscious decision to trust that the Holy Spirit knew what she (yes, dangit! If you want, I’ll share my reasons.) was doing. To trust that I wasn’t actually as wise, or knowledgeable, or aligned with Truth as I’d thought I was.

        And you know what? I started to understand much that I hadn’t previous, starting with learning that Joseph Ratzinger was not the terror I’d thought he was. I’ve grown a lot since then, but a lot of it goes back to deliberately trusting the Words of Jesus and the Working of the Spirit. It might have happened sooner, or quicker, if I hadn’t kept running into people like Dagny, who saw me as a threat, and not as someone who needed some patient teaching. If, when I asked questions in a genuine spirit of humility and wanting-to-understand, someone had tried to explain without making assumptions about my character and motives.

        So now, all the Catholics who think they’re better, wiser, more knowledgeable, more in tune with Truth can sit down and learn the same lesson I learned. Take a deep breath, stop spouting such faithless heresy (which is what the screeching amounts to), and learn to blessed-well Listen to the Spirit like I did! I have been so amused (?), recently, that so many “conservative, faithful” Catholics make the same stupid mistakes the liberals I used to hang out with make. The same logic, the same attitude . . . they just use antonyms.

        Arg. Sorry. /rant

        • This is what happens when you hit the vodka early, Z. 😉 Kidding! Good stuff! 😀

          Listening to the Holy Spirit in humility, not intellectual arrogance, is the best advice I’ve heard in a while. Thanks!

          • zmalfoy says:

            Heh. Actually, I just got back from rehearsal, so that was half a shot of Blackberry Brandy. 😀 And this has been waiting a while to come out. Off to bed now! ^_^

  9. Shalini says:

    Okay, I am going to come out and say it. I think Ann Barnhadt is making less sense and sounding more angry these days. I’ll admit her screed about the new pope did spark my latest irritation but I have long since been annoyed by her “my way or high way” stance. I understand righteous anger and even endorse it but I think she’s taking things too far. Truth, no matter how it is spoken, remains the truth. But her insistence that any view which opposes hers is falsehood and should be mocked with vitriol is… weird.

    This isn’t even about Pope Francis. While I said I do trust my dad with his knowledge of cardinals, I, too, like the rest of you am a bit cautious in my optimism because which father-daughter agrees hundred percent of the time on all things? 😛 I mean, I don’t doubt my dad’s wisdom but my dad would defend the pope to the end on things outside of dogma too while I reserve the freedom to disagree. That’s probably where I might have disagreements with our pope’s views and I think it’s okay. I am looking forward to knowing him. So, really. This isn’t about him.

    It’s about her rant about the Jesuits. While I understand all of you are either disappointed or angry with what the modern day Jesuits have done to the Americas and Europe, and it is justified, I still refuse to give up on them. Many Jesuits were martyred to spread the faith in this part of the world and I wouldn’t be a Christian if not for them. St. Francis Xavier saved my ancestors by bringing Christ to them. Satan targets groups which are detrimental to his plan of deception and lies and try to destroy them from within and unfortunately a certain generation of Jesuits ended up being weak and human, like we all are, and fell prey to his machinations and we all ended up being losers for it. Hating them solves nothing. In fact, it would only make Satan happier. I would continue to pray they come out stronger and be God’s marines and throw Satan’s plan on his face. If Ann Barnhadt’s thinks that God gives up on people who turn against Him and starts hating them, where will ALL of us be? Being Christian is about loving God above all else and loving Him means hoping those lost souls come back to Him because His will has always been about saving souls. She’s wrong. On this, she is. Has she never read about the visions of Christ to Sr. Faustina? Sure, they hurt Him but He wants them to come back to Him.

    And about “Social justice”. I’ll admit, seeing those words in Pope Francis’ biography set the alarm bells wringing in my head, too. But, only for a while till I shook it off. See, that’s problem with progressive movement. They hijack perfectly good words and actions and twist them to be something entirely different. Oftentimes, the call for social justice has led to Marxism and Socialism. No doubt about that. But that is a flaw in the human mind which abdicates personal responsibility and expects the government to do good things because, hey, doesn’t it feel good to think that we are helping other people with other people’s money? We can help ourselves to some of it while we are at it. This isn’t social justice in it’s core. There is absolutely nothing wrong in helping the lesser fortunate, though. It’s not about giving ‘free stuff’ as she so simply puts it. It’s about respecting human dignity and feeling shame at not wanting to help people who need it desperately while we live in luxury. The shame isn’t in being successful or wealthy. The shame is in the hardened heart. I see little children in abject poverty all the time. I have lived a privileged life and when I see children, as young as my nieces or nephews, doing jobs they shouldn’t be doing, it is a horrible feeling. The money I spend on one birthday gift to my nephew would be their entire school term fees. I don’t do it because it makes me feels nice. I do it because it is the right thing to do. I cannot deny them the chance of being what they could be while I can. Like everything else in God’s infinite wisdom, social justice should a fruit of free will. To say Christ did not want rich people to help poor people is a blatant lie. When the rich man had lavish meals ignoring the poor Lazarus, it wasn’t just about the food or the opulence. It was his hardened heart and denial of the human dignity of Lazarus, of his existence. That was the denial of social justice in that instance, more than anything else. When Mother Teresa went about asking for money to people so she could make those wretched people feel the dignity of being human again, she didn’t do so that it would make the givers feel *nice*. In fact, she made the reluctant givers human just as much. She didn’t force them, though. Social justice isn’t Marxism and it’s ridiculous to categorically dump everything in one big evil box and feel smug about it. I admit that I don’t know Pope Francis’ idea of social justice but he has strongly denied liberation theology, so I have hope. If he ends up being Ann what accuses him to be(Without valid reason) then I would say I am disappointed but I am going to give him the benefit of doubt till then.

    Ann has been right about a lot of things, and her writings have greatly helped me but she isn’t always right. Sad that she doesn’t realize it.

    It’s nearly 5 am here, I am suffering from insomnia and I know this rant is as bad as my previous ones but for once, I can’t even bring myself to care!

    • Harvey says:

      Thank you for speaking up, Shalini. I, too, am concerned for Ann’s bitterness.

    • texan59 says:

      I am not Catholic and will not argue the merits of theology with Ann or anyone here. Y’all are way above my pay grade in that department. I admired her grit for some time, but it certainly seems as though she has gone off the rails as of late. I’m unsure of her motivation since she willingly converted to Catholicism not too long ago. Well knowing the issues at hand. She has set her blog up quite cleverly. She can only be challenged in private. No public voices of dissent. While she has garnered a following, her public screeds are beginning to sound like fingernails on the chalkboard. I wish her health and wellness, but the whole “I’m not paying my taxes or mortgage” thing is IMHO, the signs of advancing paranoia.

    • Shalini, I can only remark that I wish I was as lucid at 5am after a sleepless night. God bless you! Very well said. I will pray that you get some rest tomorrow (today), perhaps with a few cat naps. I really like what you said, and I think that your experience in your home country gives you a better view than Ann about the environment that Francis comes from in Buenos Aires. Lots of South American priests subscribe to liberation theology, which is discouraging because it can result in Marxism. The fact that he rejects it is critical, and Ann’s accusation that he doesn’t mean it shows the depths of her tendency to distrust. Also, I agree with you about Jesuits. We’re cursed with a lot of bad ones here in America, but you can’t paint them all with the same brush. The good ones are deeply orthodox and have been a godsend, and you can’t deny that they exist or assume one man is a lefty just because he’s a Jesuit.

    • MRM says:

      Thank you Shalini!

    • zmalfoy says:

      As a student and friend of Jesuits, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for sticking up for them. I know of people who worked for them for a time, and there is a real battle being fought within the Order– many of the younger priests are far more in line with Orthodoxy, far more faithful to doctrine– but their superiors are of that messed up generation. Yes, I’ve met plenty of the “bad” ones, but that means the rest need our prayers all the more. Saints Ignatius, Francis Xavier, Aloyisious Gonzaga, all of the Companions through the centuries . . . I know these guys are still on the job, still praying for their brothers in Christ. If such men as these are still praying for them, then there is still hope. How shamed we should be if we abandon them when they need our prayers the most!

      Also, agree with the rest of what you said. All of it. I too admired Dagny’s writings– I learned a lot from her. But when she started sounding just like the Rabid Progressives only with opposite words . . . I started to feel uneasy. Been There, Done That, Actually Do Have the T-Shirt. Never ever believe that you’ve got The Whole of the Truth, and Nothing But the Truth–> That’s impossible while still living, still prone to sin and error, and means you’ve closed yourself to Truth, and are therefore, quite wrong.

      In the meantime, I shall pray, and wait and see, and Trust that He’s Got This.
      Excellent rant, by the way. You said a lot of what was on my mind. So thanks for that!

      Get some sleep, dear one!

      • Shalini says:

        No, thank YOU all for always having an open mind and listening. Grunt and you have made some excellent points, Zoph. I did wanted to mention about her anger towards people who don’t insist upon the importance or Latin Mass. And you Zoph, it takes great humility to accept that you’ve been wrong and that you are open to learning, letting the Spirit guide you. You never fail to amaze me, Sis. 🙂 I, for one, am super glad you chose to listen to Christ’s word because it wouldn’t do for you to be on the other side.

        And Grunt, thank you for the blessings and prayers. Maybe I could sleep today. 🙂

        • I’ll be saying a rosary today for all the other things in your life as well. Be at peace, Sister. 🙂

          Also, please accept this in the spirit of friendship that it’s offered in, but don’t worry at all about it: If you’d like us to set up a private forum for you to discuss personal/family things with a few of the people you think might be of help, that is extremely easy to do. We could create a private blog, linked on the right-hand side, that could be deleted in a few weeks. It would only be accessible to those you choose. It need not include me. For example, Gruntessa (Mrs. Grunt) could set it up and invite just MRM or Zoph, Freedom or others. Likewise, Zoph could set it up, if she’s willing. In my experience, WP is very secure. Just let us know. The same goes for anyone else.

          • MRM says:

            Grunt, Shalini, et al, I’ve been absent for quite a while – real life stuff getting in the way – so I apologize for not knowing what’s going on with all y’all. But I like the idea and will be happy to contribute whatever I can. Even if it’s just a cyber-shoulder to lean/cry on.

          • Shalini says:

            Thank you, all. I appreciate the kind offer and sentiment behind it. I really do. If any of you need me for anything from prayer to virtual shoulder, as MRM so nicely put it, I’ll be there.
            Grunt, it’s not so much the people but the situation involved I am quite hesitant to discuss. My sis is encouraging me to take you up on the offer. But for now, I will take comfort in your prayers. I hope I don’t sound ungrateful. 🙂

  10. Tex’s Photo of the kind of food he knows and loves, as opposed to anything the Barefoot Contessa makes… 😉

  11. Go ahead anti-gun Democrats. Just keep poking the bear.

    • texan59 says:

      A nice ending to my evening! 😆

    • barnslayer says:

      – Black t-shirt on right… “Thank God redhead came along!”
      – Redhead…. “F@ck!!! We didn’t have lunch yet.”
      – Guy on ground with camera… “Hey wait!!! I hate the guy in the black t-shirt. I need new friends”
      – Guy on left with reflector… “Heh, heh. I am outta here muchachos. Maybe I’m gonna throw this thing at the guy in the black t-shirt.”

  12. solaratov says:

    I’m going to just take a ‘wait and see’ attitude about Francis.
    From what I’ve read about him, he seems to be a decent man and someone who will do his best to guide the Church. I’m especially impressed with his complete rejection of “liberation theology” and marxism. (And it’s a very good sign that the leftists are all arrayed against him from the start as being too conservative . Anybody they attack can’t be all bad.)
    And, I see nothing wrong with his concern for the poor and disenfranchised. I don’t believe that he’s an advocate of redistribution (through force or taxation) – but he does believe in charity. (Shouldn’t we all?)
    I just find it kind of hard to believe that there is such a difference between what I’ve read (and what Shalini has said about her father’s knowledge of Francis) and what Anne says is the “real” story. And how is it that Anne has this information that no one else seems to have?
    Time will tell, I suppose.

    • solaratov says:

      I also found this interesting anecdote about Francis……………….

      Effectively, Card. Bergoglio thinks that baptism should be given more freely even to the children of those who are not practicing their faith. Some time ago, Pope Benedict also said something along these lines, explaining that when he was younger, he had a more restrictive view. The Church in S. America is facing a horrible challenge from secularism and relativism on the one hand, fundamentalist sects on the other.

      “Cardinal Bergoglio has explained the meaning of all this in an interview with the international magazine “30 Days”:

      “The child has no responsibility for the condition of his parents’ marriage. The baptism of children can, on the contrary, become a new beginning for the parents. A while ago, I baptized the seven children of one woman, a poor widow who works as a maid and had her children by two different men. I met her on the feast of Saint Cajetan. She said to me, ‘Father, I am in mortal sin, I have seven children and have never had them baptized, I don’t have the money for the godparents and for the party… I saw her again and after a little catechesis I baptized them in the chapel of the archepiscopal residence. The woman said to me, ‘Father, I can’t believe it, you make me feel important’. I said to her, ‘But madam, what do I have to do with it? It’s Jesus who makes you important.” [Do I hear a big “Amen!”?]

      Bergoglio is anxious not to extinguish a tradition typical of the most remote areas of Argentina, in those towns and villages where the priest comes only a few times a year:

      “There, popular piety feels that children must be baptized as soon as possible, so there are men or women known by all as ‘bautizadores’ who baptize the children when they are born, in anticipation of the arrival of the priest. And when he arrives, they bring the children to him so that he can anoint them with holy oil, completing the rite.

    • About your speculation on Ann’s “secret knowledge” of Francis, I wondered about that, too. I don’t know where she found that stuff about his hostility toward the “traditionalists” in Argentina or the Latin Mass folks in general, but I strongly suspect she gets newsletters and web-updates from Traditionalist groups, like the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), and they may have immediately blitzed their membership with the “dirty” on him from their point of view. I have some experience with those guys, and in my view, they can be extremely paranoid and vicious. Plus, I think they’re just wrong about a good many things. I respect their desire to preserve what is good about tradition, but many of them seem to have forgotten what it’s all about. I also think, being in a war mentality, they are quite capable of distorting the record to smear him if they see him as a threat. That’s what I think is going on, but I’ll try to find out more.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s