I have been straying!

Okay, so I have been having this little back n forth n forth n back over on Discus at http://daily.represent.us/news-anchor-completely-loses-it-on-camera-because-of-everything-thats-wrong-with-america/#comment-1208616585
I know I should not waste my time , however, I believe that there are readers that are not so cemented in their beliefs that can see some of this…..or maybe it’s pride too….of what I believe in hating to see it so trampled…..your thoughts? 
Zach Mitchell Davis

 

Hitchens has authority, and argument from authority is oftentimes valid. Hate to burst your little internet bubble where people throw fallacies around to make themselves sound cool. I’m curious what makes you have more knowledge or authority than him? What are your credentials?

Why don’t you grab the book yourself and check the sources? As I’ve said repeatedly, I’m not going to make the arguments for the author. He covers it. In fact, he’ll probably engage in a discussion with you if you’d like. Now who is not using sources? You just told me that scientists disagree with the book, using science, and provided no citation…Thanks for proving to be a hypocrite again. Would you like to go back to your moral relatively and the hypocrisy of claiming God is evil? Or continue down this road providing evidence for arguments I’m not presenting?

I remember when I thought it was cool to be an atheist. Then I grew up.

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    Mitchell Davis Zach

    I don’t know what to say. This is a level of cognitive dissonance I’ve not often encountered. If hope, one day, you decide that reality is more important to you than the comfort of your Iron-age myths.

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      GFCinthatorder Mitchell Davis

      And you certainly must not have a soul either.  BECAUSE YOU don’t believe in one. Now is that an iron age myth? If you did then you must believe in a higher Deity than yourself and you said it yourself. No proof so it doesn’t exist.

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        Mitchell Davis GFCinthatorder

        “If you did then you must believe in a higher Deity than yourself and you said it yourself.” How did I miss that?

        Instead of arguing that there is a soul, provide evidence that there is a soul. It’s easy- well, it’s easy if soul’s actually exist. If you can’t provide evidence, then no amount of blather will make me believe you. Peer-review or GTFO.

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          GFCinthatorder Mitchell Davis

          This is probably one of the most simplist for you to perceive. Yet I know you will just sweep it under the rug because you have to or your life is a total lie. And yes Pride will keep YOU from seeing any Fact or Truth at all.

          One of the most striking proofs is documented by the renowned father of modern neurosurgery, Dr Wilder Penfield, in his book The Mystery of the Mind.  Let’s consider one of his many experiments, paraphrased here without the technical jargon for easy understanding.

          Dr Penfield set up a high-tech system to observe the brain activity of a subject, who was told to do simple activities like raising his hand. When he raised his arm, a certain part of the brain was activated and the subject described the event as: “I raised my arm.” When he brought his arm down, that part of the brain was seen to be deactivated and the subject described the event as: “I put my arm down.”

          Then Dr Penfield, using state-of-the-art technology, artificially activated that part of the brain and the arm rose up. The subject described the event as: “My arm went up.” Dr Penfield specifically asked: “Did you raise your arm?” The subject replied with full certainty: “I didn’t raise my hand. My arm rose up by itself.” When Dr Penfield deactivated the brain and the arm went down, the patient described: “My arm fell down; I did not bring it down.”

          This simple experiment had profound implications: in both cases, the brain was activated to raise and lower the arm. But in the second case, Dr Penfield, an external agent, was activating the brain.  Who was the agent activating it in the first case? In both cases, the brain was serving as a machine to transmit the intention of an agent. In the second case, it transmitted Dr Penfield’s intention. In the first case, whose intention did it transmit? Could the mysterious agent be the soul? Dr Penfield had started his brain research with the explicit intention of disproving the existence of the soul, but after conducting experiments like the above one for forty years, he came to an unambiguous conclusion: “The brain is a computer, but it is programmed by something outside of itself.”

          Now I wonder what that could be. Reasonable enough. Intelligent enough. And not that you show any care or anything but you are a very rude individual and I certainly hope there is something that brings you peace other than self gratitude.

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            deanna smith GFCinthatorder

            this is why lay-people should refrain from reading research articles that they do not understand. our understanding of the internal workings of the brain has advance significantly since dr penfields era… to say the least.

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              GFCinthatorder deanna smith

              And you/your intelligent community is not searching for any truth. You already have preconceived ideas going into your research with the intention (just like Dr. P’s. originally) to disprove there is no God and no soul. Your non “lay-people” referance speaks volumes. If it wasn’t for us you would all be rulling the world your way with your teachings of what you consider truth to be when it is actually biased. Don’t try and tell me it isn’t, you are not ruthful at all. I was raised going to school being taught about your walking fish. Blind fools you are! Trying to tell us about the soul from which you are in total darkness and will continue to be.

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                  GFCinthatorder deanna smith

                  @deanna, You only prove the point with this foolishness. Adaptation of species and you came from a line of monkeys, as you already know, are two completely different lines of your belief system. So your internal “workings of the brain” need to be reworked (for the sake of your followers) once again. You know take that quantum leap FORWARD…..lol. Unlike your community, I am not a follower/committed to any institution. What I have you cannot posess, you have not the capacity within your soul (yes you have one whether you choose to or not) to obtain it. It comes from Something that your class does not believe exist. tch….such a shame….and then you die….and for what huh? You’re a lousy gambler!

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                    deanna smith GFCinthatorder

                    “You only prove the point with this foolishness.” emotional appeal. “Adaptation of species and you came from a line of monkeys, as you already know, are two completely different lines of your belief system.” this statement belies your lack of understand of the theory of evolution… no one will seriously claim that we “came from monkeys” but that monkeys and humans had a common ancestor roughly 25 million years ago. those on the religious end of the spectrum have a vested interest in making distinctions without a difference in an attempt to distract for the fact that in all of history for all natural phenomena and localities that supernatural explanations have always failed and have been replaced with scientific naturalistic explanations.

                    your claim that a soul is somehow independent from a mind is simply not supported by the evidence… im sorry but when a simple 2 micron incision in your temporal lobe can make you a completely different person within hours… your idea’s that a persons being is somehow separate from their physical form is laughable.

                    but if you have any evidence with which to support your claims by all means present away. though lastly… pascals wager? really? you base your faith of the idea that you can fool a “omniscient” entity that your solipsistic belief and faith are worth the roughly 60-70 kilo’s of carbon oxygen hydrogen calcium and phosphorus? is that the best you can do?

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                      GFCinthatorder deanna smith

                      What you call “emotional appeal” (An appeal to emotion is a type of argument which attempts to arouse the emotions of its audience in order to gain acceptance of its conclusion.  Despite the example of Mr. Spock from the original Star Trek television series, emotion is not always out of place in logical thinking.  However, there is no doubt that strong emotions can subvert rational thought, and playing upon emotions in an argument is often fallacious. ) is actually something you should know all about! Your form of reasoning and your form of teaching is exactly that “:emotional appeal”! You teach, as though you know or have the “facts”, like this is law. Though you don’t have the tying “facts” to back yourself up. When “God” (superior being or what ever you choose to call God since you say He doesn’t exist)  allows man to find “facts” that point straight to an organized intelligent path you have to completely reject that (or you could not claim to be scientist) and come up with more foolishness that is in fact harder to believe in than what I now already possess. Yet we are expected to treat as “fact” your theories? No it is clear who is in need of the “emotional appeal” here. Oh and BTW your “understanding of the theory of evolution” is perfectly plausible …as a theory for those who need to follow your RELIGIOUS beliefs! Unfortunately we do not bow before thee and thy theories. And as for the “common” genetic make-up, of some 25 million year old theory, that we have related or “common” DNA with come prehistoric brotherhood of cave chimps……wow…….I guess we are are related to H20 since without it we could not exist . You are guilty of your own accusation. I’m sorry however I cannot except your conclusion even though you are attempting to rouse my emotions into doing so because your conclusions are fallacious! As usual! Where have all the good scientist gone that have not been indoctrinated by their teachers and the latest cohorts of doing their best to prove God does not exist!

                      And an earlier one:

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                        Mitchell Davis Seth Derrick

                        First, learn the difference between an ad hominem and an insult, dumbass.

                        So, you think that not voting will somehow make a difference in a system where laws are reformed by people that vote and people that are voted in? How do you not understand that not participating in the system gives you no power in the system, not more?

                        The nation has been shifting more to the left (socially) over the past century. The last 30 years are no different.

                        “Because in order for your argument to carry water, that it is a lack of voter participation that can be blamed for the state having been taken over by corporatists and financiers would be if liberals and progressives were absent in greater numbers than conservatives.”

                        No, in order for my argument to carry water, it must be true. Not voting means you don’t get a voice in a democracy. Voting means you do get a voice. That voice can be trumped, or ignored, but it actually exists at some level when you vote. If every one of you non-participating dolts actually voted then we’d have had far fewer idiotic politicians. A nation either collectively chooses better and better politicians with time, or worse and worse politicians.

                        Obviously, money needs to be taken out of politics as it currently functions as a form of voting that completely cheats the system. If you think so too, vote for the candidates that agree with that position, OR IT WILL NEVER CHANGE. We have a system where political revolutions can start anywhere, but only have any wieght if there are enough voters that agree with whatever position to pick laws and politicians that agree with the position.

                        We need money out of politics, we need to replace the EC with a FPTP voting system, we need to use the shortest split-line method so we can actually eliminate gerrymandering, no shit. But opting out of the system of change prevents you from changing the system. If you care about fixing the system, you can’t throw it out the window- you have to swap out the bad parts and eliminate redundancies.

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                        Teresa Seth Derrick

                        Actually Gerrymandering has had more of an effect on who is or is not voted in than whatever you are suggesting.

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                          Seth Derrick Teresa

                          Teresa, the only thing I suggested was that my non-participation in the voting process was not an act of petulance or naivete. If anyone wants to have a rational conversation about the tenets of voluntaryism I’d be happy to have that conversation but that’s outside the scope of what I was initially responding to. That said, I agree with you that gerrymandering is a huge problematic part of the process but I ask you this: Who is doing the gerrymandering? Elected members of the legislature! So as long as both major parties see a benefit in gerrymandering (and they do) the likelihood of it being done away with via some legislative act is about nil. Power doesn’t work that way. Power is self-interested and will never work towards its own abbreviation.

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                        deanna smith Seth Derrick

                        precisely… i do not want to vote between republican-wanna-be’s and batshit crazy people…

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                        JustSaying Mitchell Davis

                        If MShowerhead chooses not to vote or to vote for someone other than the official nominees of the Republican or Democratic parties, that’s not sh*ting on democracy, it’s upholding it. MShowerhead is letting his (or her) voice be heard instead of voting for whatever bs candidates this failing two-party system is producing.

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                        Leonidcat Mitchell Davis

                        Someone steps up and earns your vote? Here’s the deal. We have a two party system because of the media and because of special interests and banks. We have over 20 registered parties in this country, about 5 of which are pretty viable. Not voting is giving up a privilege provided to very few people in this world. The two parties hand pick who they want us to vote for and they spend BILLIONS getting that person elected via ad campaigns and telling us anything to get elected.

                        So what I did, is get out and meet the candidates BEFORE the primaries. I asked questions, listened to their responses and then went out and worked to get my person elected. It actually worked. My person was not supported by their own party. Their party supported a career politician that could only run attack ads against my person. We did research and found that those ads were false. That made us work harder for our candidate and guess what? He won the primary and went on to become our senator and we love him. He is hard working, intelligent and does what we wanted him to do and we are proud of him.

                        It doesn’t take that much time to get involved…. you have forever to live with not voting and getting people like we have today. McCain, Pelosi, Reid, McConnell, Waters, etc. These people are unfit to lead and if people would get involved in primaries and choose their candidate intelligently, then maybe we can get them out.

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                        mikeinportc Mitchell Davis

                        Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for an evil.

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                        Partay MShowerhead

                        I applaud you right NOT to vote. The guilt trip that is played on those who don’t vote is just a ploy to get uniformed voters in the mix. I’ve heard it many times in conversations both liberal and conservative, it’s usually followed by a lengthy dissertation about who or what they should be voting for. Uninformed voting is like choosing from a chocolate assortment, you have no clue what you’re going to get, you may love it, like it, hate it, or spit it out in disgust AFTER the choice has been made. The question “Did you vote?” should never be asked of anyone. Voting, or not voting, is a right and a choice in a free democratic society, not an “I voted” medal to be earned. When someone is going to vote, my hope is that they’ve informed themselves, no matter what they think their belief system may be. (Basic economics might be a great place to start)  I’ve heard it said that “If you don’t vote, you’re part of the problem”, I believe if you vote for something you have no clue about, you’re part of the problem.

                        Opting out when someone is informed doesn’t really help much either. A non vote isn’t really a vote, even if you’re disgusted with the process as a whole, it really only serves those who eventually win. Vote what you really believe and are informed about, even if it’s the person or idea least likely to win. If one doesn’t believe in a particular person or thing don’t tick the box, just make sure you can sleep at night with the choices you make.

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                          Teresa Partay

                          While I agree, in part, I do believe every eligible person should vote. BUT having said that, I also feel it is incumbent on the person voting to educate themselves before they actually enter a voting booth. I personally don’t care WHO people vote for-that is why we have the privacy of a voting booth, I DO care if you don’t vote and then try to demonize me because I do, or try to demonize the person elected. If you don’t vote, you have no RIGHT to complain about who actually made it into office. Please vote your INFORMED conscience. It is none of MY business WHO you vote for.

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                        GFCinthatorder MShowerhead

                        While I agree with you that we all need to get off our duffs and do something….I will also say you are missing the real foundation here. If you build your house on sand to what avail is that? We have to (individually) return to our foundation of Faith by repenting of the great many sins we have allowed into our lives and then and only then can we begin to fight the battles that lieahead of us. If we are strong individually then we will come together as a power of unity that no man can mess with. Maybe then there will be some guidance, some wisdom, some Light that will lead us out of the darkness. All of these issues discussed are because WE allowed them to happen in the first place. WE allowed God to be thrown under the bus and what was in the closet to become our ruler. KNOW YOUR ENEMY first. If you don’t know who you’re fighting you will never win. It is going to get worse before we return to God and realize our sins is what got US here in the first place. I totally agree with the banks and money being the root of all evil and how do you fight evil? Send out the weakest ones to do your battle? We can’t even call EVIL for what it is let alone recognize it anymore. Why is that? The closet is ruling our lives and telling US what to do. And don’t look for any serios answers from our churches either. What America is going through right now is only a microcosm of what the Catholic Church is going through. “When you see corruption in the high places, know that the end times is near”. Our leaders have failed US and failed to lead. Now it is up to US to reclaim what we believe in. GFCandinthatorder.wordpress.co…

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                          MShowerhead GFCinthatorder

                          I am not missing anything, but don’t talk oranges in a conversation about apples.  America, being founded by people who were looking for a place to practice religion freely, makes it clear that there’s a separation between church and state.  If you want to talk about God, you do it in your church, church groups, or conversations with fellow believers.  Understand, your beliefs are your beliefs and, while you’re entitled to them and I won’t judge you for having them, you have no right to sling these ideas around like they are 1) the absolute truth and 2) everybody should be agreeing with you.  I’ve read your book and I’ve read Harry Potter.  Some people speak in gospel, others speak in Klingon.

                          And I have no sympathy for the trials and tribulations of the Catholic Church, a business (yes, a business) with more power and money than any other business in the world.  They have the money to cure hunger.  Their leaders have the ability to inspire, yet they choose to… well, you’ve read the news.

                          The definition of faith is ‘a strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.’  You can read that again if you’d like.  Remember, the world use to be flat.

                          Again, no judgement for having your faith…. the world is messed up and everybody needs something to keep them going.  Just keep church talk in church, because it doesn’t solve real world problems.

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                            GFCinthatorder MShowerhead

                            You say you are not missing anything! Yet you have no foundation at.all, nothing to base you principles on, nothing to base your morality on other than your intellectual thoughts. And how did you come by these thoughts? A big bang? Self? So if you do not believe in a Gold then you must see yourself as a god? Or temporal deity of some sort? I am not ridiculing you here I want you to answer the questions honestly. If you don’t know then say you don’t know. I hear anger in your tone. You sau I have no right to speak in my religious way? Excuse me but by Constitution I have as.  Much right as you do to speak my mind as well as you do. Would you just love it if we all dissapeared and went away? Well that will never happen. I am not slinging anything. It is not my book you say you have read. Though parts of the good Book may or may not have been changed it still serves as more of an Historical documentation (trying to be destroyed by so many disbelievers) of so much information including the Life death and Ressurection of Christ. I am not trying to convince you of anything. Your theories and ideas have nothing to back them up. It is far easier to believe and yes have Faith in what Christ teaches us than what you do. You are a lousy gambler at that. IF I’m wrong no biggie, if you are well you lose for an eternity. If I pray for you it is not to “make me feel good”, you just don’t have the eyes to see what Christians believe in nor do you want the Truth. Truth is not something can really fathom. TRUTH AND Faith go hand in hand. There are more historical evidence to believe in my God than what you believe in. See that’s Truth that you will never see because you are not searching for the Truth. BLAME GAME. How can one have a conversation, intelligent one, with anyone who will not honestly Searching for Truth. It can’t happen. Yeah the gun is bad cause it kills people right? No, man is of fallen nature and man pulls the trigger. Is that Gods fault? Because he created man with a free will that separates us from the animals? Amusing thought. Yes you can blame much on the churches, they are of fallen nature too and have failed to lead there flocks, is that God’s fault or mans? Oh right you don’t believe in God. Well then I think you cannot choose between what is good and what isn’t? Ultimately you can’t. Yes we must be just a higher form of animals! That’s the most ridiculous thought ever. Even true scientist searching for the truth would tell you ddifferent. You are completely wrong that religion has no answer. Love (which is not what you can understand in your way of thinking) is the ultimate answer. Even if that love puts me on a cross to die for my brother. Maybe it is a war, suffering or sharing but never easy. It is a choice. A free will choice made by an individual to give of himself in any particular area for the sake of what is right. Be at peace.

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                              Mitchell Davis GFCinthatorder

                              How is ‘X person said this is good, so it’s good’ in any way superior to actually trying to discern what is good?

                              Anywho, your claims of evidence don’t count as evidence. If you have evidence, present it. Not only will you win every rational person on the planet over to your religion, but you’ll get a Nobel Prize.

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                                GFCinthatorder Mitchell Davis

                                Top Ten Scientific Explantions of Miracle of Sun at Fatima (Catholic Caucus) Creative Minority Report ^ | 10/14/2009 | Matthew Archbold Posted on Wed Oct 14 2009 15:22:56 GMT-1000 (HST) by markomalley

                                The Miracle of the Dancing Sun at Fatima which was seen by 70,000 people on October 13th, 1917 has been written about often. But many people continually attempt to explain away the vision of the sun dancing in the sky at a foretold time.

                                Avelino de Almeida, wrote articles for O Século, Portugal’s most widely-circulated and influential newspaper, which was pro-government and anti-clerical at the time. Almeida’s previous articles had been to satirize the previously reported events at Fatima but here’s what he wrote that day:

                                “Before the astonished eyes of the crowd, whose aspect was biblical as they stood bare-headed, eagerly searching the sky, the sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements outside all cosmic laws — the sun ‘danced’ according to the typical expression of the people.” But secularists have amassed an enormous amount of explanations as to why we should not believe our own eyes. Here are the astounding reasons they’ve amassed so we should believe nothing at all special happened in Portugal that great day.

                                1. Stratospheric Dust. Steuart Campbell, writing for the 1989 edition of Journal of Meteorology, postulated that a cloud of stratospheric dust changed the appearance of the sun on 13 October, making it easy to look at, and causing it to appear yellow, blue, and violet and to spin. In support of his hypothesis, Mr. Campbell reports that a blue and reddened sun was reported in China as documented in 1983.

                                2. ESP! (Always my favorite) Author Lisa Schwebel claims that the event was a supernatural (but non-miraculous) extra-sensory phenomenon. Schwebel notes that the solar phenomenon reported at Fátima is not unique – there have been several reported cases of high pitched religious gatherings culminating in the sudden and mysterious appearance of lights in the sky.

                                3. Mock-Sun. Didn’t even know this existed but it’s worth a listen. Joe Nickell, a skeptic and investigator of paranormal phenomena, claims that the position of the phenomenon, as described by the various witnesses, is at the wrong azimuth and elevation to have been the sun. He suggests the cause may have been a sundog. Sometimes referred to as a parhelion or “mock sun”, a sundog is an atmospheric optical phenomenon associated with the reflection/refraction of sunlight by the numerous small ice crystals that make up cirrus or cirrostratus clouds. A sundog is, however, a stationary phenomenon, and would not explain the reported appearance of the “dancing sun”. So Nickell further suggests an explanation for this phenomena may lie in temporary retinal distortion, caused by staring at the intense light and/or the effect of darting the eyes to and fro so as to avoid completely fixed gazing (thus combining image, afterimage and movement). So the people shook their heads and though a mock-sun was dancing. All 70,000? Prety ridiculous, huh?

                                4. Dust cloud! Paul Simons, in an article entitled “Weather Secrets of Miracle at Fatima”, states that he believes it possible that some of the optical effects at Fatima may have been caused by a cloud of dust from the Sahara.

                                5. Ye ol mass hallucination theory. Author Kevin McClure claims that the crowd at Cova da Iria may have been expecting to see signs in the sun, as similar phenomena had been reported in the weeks leading up to the miracle. On this basis he believes that the crowd saw what it wanted to see. (Yeah because that happens all the time.) But McClure’s account fails to explain similar reports of people miles away, who by their own testimony were not even thinking of the event at the time, or the sudden drying of people’s sodden, rain-soaked clothes.

                                6. UFO! It has been argued that the Fatima phenomenon was an alien craft. Of course, either that craft happened to come on the day that the three little children said a miracle would occur. Or the apparitions were all the works of little green men. This all sounds a lot more real than the Church’s explanation.

                                7. Solar Storm. A gigantic coronal mass ejection (CME) occurred. Every eleven years our sun goes through a period of solar storms and these storms have been with us for centuries of recorded history. Solar flares emit high-speed particles that cause the Northern Lights or Aurora Borealis. Well that explains it all right there. Because we all know the Northern Lights look exactly like the Sun dancing. Or not.

                                8. Peer pressure. Among a uniform people sharing a particular religious belief, it is very easy for individuals to feel social pressure to conform to whatever is seen as a part of “how things should be”, for “true believers”. 70,000 people. That’s pretty strong peer pressure especially for the people who saw it 20 miles away.

                                9. Not everyone saw it. Astronomers noticed no dancing in the sky from all over the world. The dancing sun was a regional event thus disproving it. A quick question would be the fact that it was a regional event should prove that something out of the ordinary happened. If it happened worldwide it would be written off as simply an astronomical event because the whole world saw it.

                                10. An Eclipse. These fellas don’t mind contradicting themselves. This would be a very very regional eclipse. Wouldn’t astronomers have noted the eclipse?

                                Bonus Reason: 11. Evolution. This is sadly from Institute of Physics, Catholic Univeristy of Louvain. Evolution has provided us with the infamous “zoom and loom effect”. It tends to appear when the brain is confronted with the two-dimensional retinal image of an object thatis situated at some unknown distance. The brain will then consider the possibility that it could come closer, by performing an illusory mental zoom, where the apparent size of the object isprogressively increased. This results from the fact that evolution preserved the tendency to take into account the possibility of a dangerous approach: a rapid evasive action could bebeneficial for survival. When the “idea” of an approach does not lead to any real danger, the perceived object returns to its normal place. Thus the dancing sun. Amazing. 70,000 people thought the Sun was a predator coming to eat them. When they realized the Sun had no teeth they “zoomed and loomed” it back to where it belonged. That might just be my favorite one.

                                So after listening to these level-headed scientists(?) explain away Fatima hasn’t it convinced you to join the Richard Dawkins fan club? Me neither

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                                  Mitchell Davis GFCinthatorder

                                  *Yawn* So you have a case of mass-delusion- big deal. If you accept that one is real (which would be stupid, considering that most people when interviewed seem to have seen remarkably different things at different times), then to be fair you must accept all others- but, if you accept all others, then you’re left with multiple mutually exclusive religions being true.

                                  Until you have evidence that proves these sightings are accurately retold (not that that’s possible with conflicting mutually exclusive sightings), I have no more reason to believe in them than I do in fairies.

                                  Also, scientists =/= skeptics =/= secularists =/= atheists, you bloody moron.

                                  Evidence or GTFO. It’s really that simple.

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                                  GFCinthatorder GFCinthatorder

                                  Being this is the anniversary of The Miracle of the Sun I want to say. For those who are truly searching for the Truth it is all about and around you for the finding. For the rest of you no Miracle of anything will change the way you are now. The Truth is you are not searching for any truth just excuses to live your lives the way you want too. You are truly blind and I pity you. Historybis full of miracles that you all can continue to try and destroy (why not the Church has down the same) and hide under some bushel basket or kill the messenger and somehow the message will go away. But what you do not recognize is the Spirit of God that is present whether you, the Church, or anyone else trys and destroys it. I am not a label for you to kick around (you can if you like) but a Faith grounded in the teachings of Christ that no church, man or other can take away. History is also filled with fools such as you. Self gods. I am a Fool for Christ! You are a lousy gambler as well!

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                                      GFCinthatorder Mitchell Davis

                                      Peer review. Yeah that about sums it up for you. All the peers in the world are not gonna pass one judgement where it really counts. Think I care about that one? You sir are a gambler and a lousy one at that! All your education in the world has given you this form of intelligence? Here is a question for you.What makes man different than any animal? Bet you can’t even answer that one without falling into some fit? After the way you so easily sweep the last one under the carpet with a wishy washy answer. What’s Wong with you? Didn’t witness it for yourself? Everybody is a liar but you and your great knowledge? 70,000 people from all walks of life including ignorant educated fools such as yourself and you just give such an overwhelmingly wishy washy answer.

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                                        Mitchell Davis GFCinthatorder

                                        “All the peers in the world are not gonna pass one judgement where it really counts.” Holy crap, you don’t even know what the peer review process is, do you?

                                        “What makes man different than any animal?” You mean any /other/ animal, right? Apart from our differing anatomies? Civilization, culture.

                                        “Everybody is a liar but you and your great knowledge?” What I’m talking about is in the same vein as 2+2=4. I can lie, and say that 2+2=6, but my lying about the fact does not change that fact in any way, shape or form. If you have empirical, objective evidence for the existence of a deity then provide it- even if someone lies about it, that does not matter, because you will have demonstrated the fact.

                                        I find it hard to believe you’re having trouble with the concept of evidence. I’ll use a simplified demonstration for further assistance:

                                        You say you own a dog. I ask for proof. Now all you have to do is show me the dog.

                                        Let’s take it up a level.

                                        You say you own a dog that can grant wishes. I ask for proof. What have to do is make a very clear and non-vague wish in some recorded manner (for authentication), and then have the wish granted, and then not just correlate, but also find a causative link between the fulfillment of the wish and the dog, thereby demonstrating the dog’s ability to do that.

                                        Do you get it? I don’t have to keep babying you? Fantastic.

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                                          GFCinthatorder Mitchell Davis

                                          Just what I expected from your intelligence. Your answer gives you away. “You mean any other animal” Yes you would have to classify it that way because you and all you white papers in the world cannot explain what a soul is. The part which makes us different than any other animal. The part which all of your white papered allies would have us believe does not exist. The one thing that God gave man that makes us different than all of the other animals. Why? Because HE said so. And all the crap you would “theorize” us to believe in holds much less weight and validity than what I have as written history. Wouldn’t it be so nice just to go away. You cannot believe man has a soul, that would bear witness to a higher Deity than yourself. Not possible for an educated fool. You and your theories (which is not in any way math at all regardless what you say or write) keep changing and evolving to fit every new finding. Yet every new finding actually makes fools of you. Evolution, big bangs center of the universe and so on….. You teach it as if it were fact and it is not yet it is taught that way. Fools. And then you discover something new and your led off in another twist of arrogance searching for the one thing you will never find, that there really isn’t a God. Fools. Not an “open mind” at all like so many claim. Yeah you made some discoveries, that make fools out of your previous theories, but do you get it? No you have to keep trying to prove there is no God. That IS your destiny. Such a shame. You have learnt nothing at all from history. You have a “peer Review process” big deal. What you think I know or doesn’t matters not to me. What a waste of the few years you have hear on earth, and then what? You’re gone? Like I said that is a lousy gamble for anyone with “intelligence”.

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                              MShowerhead GFCinthatorder

                              I didn’t say that I don’t believe in God, so your assessment on my lack of foundation is completely wrong.  My point is that conversations about religion have no place in conversations about government.  That’s why there’s a separation between church and state.  Talk about politics in political conversations and keep religion in religious conversations.

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                                GFCinthatorder MShowerhead

                                While I hear what you are saying I don’t agree with you. I am not forcing my beliefs on you or anyone else. I am simply living as one who has a different perspective than you. You are a forceful voice and lay claim to what you believe in based on what you see as fact. I disagree with your “facts” as theory and it certainly is not comparable to math at all. You can’t throw out history and historical documents as irrellivant because of your beliefs and what you want to believe in based on theories and science of probables.

                                FEEL FREE TO TELL ME I’M NUTS

About GFCinthatorder

God Family Country I Believe in 1 God! I beleve in a strong united Family! I believe this Great Country was inspired by God! I believe that it all starts at home with our personal realationship with God! Glorious Prince of the Celestial Host, St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in the conflict which we have to sustain against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places (Eph 6:12). Come to the rescue of men whom God has redeemed at a great price from the tyranny of the devil. It is thou whom Holy Church venerates as her guardian and her protector; thou whom the Lord has charged to conduct redeemed souls into heaven. Pray therefore, the God of peace, to subdue Satan beneath our feet, that he may no longer retain men captive nor do injury to the Church. Present our prayers to the Most High, that without delay they may draw His mercy down upon us. Seize “the dragon, the ancient serpent, which is the devil and Satan,” bind him and cast him into the bottomless pit…”THAT HE MAY NO LONGER SEDUCE THE NATIONS”
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3 Responses to I have been straying!

  1. Smart idiots are the worst kind of idiots. I’m glad you have the energy to argue with them. I’m getting too old for it, myself, unless they show some signs of honesty. Some of these seem more interested in proving how smart they are than what the truth is.

    • barnslayer says:

      I agree. Those types are usually a brick wall. I do however get some satisfaction in posing a question they refuse to answer. That’s when they revert to name-calling or deflection. Unless you’re getting some mental exercise out of it….. it’s a waste of time.

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